[RITSlist] Golden state

Mon Nov 12 21:27:14 CST 2007

Going back a bit further, my December 1937 passenger timetable does not call
for any stops at all between Chicago and Rock Island; between Rock Island
and Eldon; between Eldon and Trenton etc.  EXCEPT that a general note covers
every station listed as follows:

Note 1 - No. 3 will stop at any stations between Chicago and Hutchinson,
Kan., to receive paying Standard Sleeping Car passengers, No. 43 for paying
Tourist Car  and Chair Car passengers and No. 11 paying passengers for
Tucumcari and beyond when advance arrangements have been made through the
Passenger Department, except at Lawrence, Kan., where stop will be made to
receive pay passengers for Tucumcari and beyond, except points in
California.  No. 4 will stop at any station between Hutchinson, Kan., and
Chicago, to let off paying Standard Sleeping Car passengers, No. 44 for
paying Tourist Car and Chair Car passengers and No. 12 paying passengers
from Tucumcari and beyond, except at Lawrence, Kan., where stop will be made
to let off pay passengers from Tucumcari and beyond, except from points in
California.

Which reinforces the comment made earlier that the train, and the others
referenced, were long-distance trains and not local services, and so would
only stop for passengers going the long distances.  The Lawrence clause is
interesting in its own right, as it acknowledges the RI's trackage rights
agreement with UP from KC to Topeka - the clause only allows pickup of
passengers going to New Mexico and Arizona destinations not served by the
UP.  California travellers in Lawrence were therefore required to take the
UP...or the Santa Fe from their station.

Totally unrelated, but I just noticed a line I had not observed before -
"Airport Station" between Randolph and Kansas City, with note A, "Stops to
let off Airplane passengers when previous arrangements have been made."
This would be the downtown airport in Kansas City on the north side of the
Missouri River, and reflects the fact that at the time of this timetable,
the joint RI/MILW Truman Bridge had not yet been built, and the RI trains
came in to town over the Burlington into North Kansas City and past the
airport before crossing the river into the West Bottoms - which of course
made the WB trains enter KC Union Station from the west.  The trains then
had to be turned to become westbound trains again before proceeding to
California.  Just another oddball operation in the annals of the Rock
Island.

As long as Golden State questions are being asked, and as long as I've taken
us back to the heavyweight era, here's a couple more:  Some previously
published RITS Golden State consists list 8 assigned lounge dorm cars in
1926.  Would these likely have been listed in the public timetables solely
as lounge cars?  Is it likely they would have endured in GSL consists into
1940?

Also, the same previously-published RITS Golden State consists indicate
Pullman assigned "Golden" series 3-2 Observation/lounge cars to the train.
All other sleepers are listed generically - is it known whether other
specific sleeper 'name-series' were assigned specifically to GSL (or
Californian, or Apache etc.) service, or did they all come from the general
service pool and thus reflect the wide array of car names from the whole
Pullman fleet?

Finally, were heavyweight diner and lounge cars Pullman-owned or Rock
Island-owned in the prewar and wartime era?

Patrick Lenahan
Prairie Village, KS

  _____  

From: ritslist-bounces at thunder.simpson.edu
[mailto:ritslist-bounces at thunder.simpson.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Gill
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:37 AM
To: David Koziol; ritslist
Subject: Re: [RITSlist] Golden state

David -

The July 1956 Official Guide shows conditional stops at Centerville.  At
that time, 3 & 4 made only conditional stops between Rock Island and Kansas
City. Conditional stops were at Davenport, Muscatine, Columbus Jct., Eldon,
Centerville, and Trenton. The conditional stops at  Centerville were to
receive/discharge passengers to/from El Paso and beyond.

The Rock Island seems to have had a fetish about conditional stops - the
timetable was loaded with them, and they used every conceivable symbol to
denote them. Further, in the public timetables, a conditional stop was shown
only with the symbol; no time was shown (now, THAT was useful).  Somewhere,
there must've been a secret codebook or cheat sheet for ticket agents. Some
trains made conditional stops at certain stations on designated days of the
week, and  regular stops on other days.  And to think they probably paid
people to conjure up all this stuff.  Gotta love The Rock!

Well, anyway, No. 3 left Rock Island (181 miles from Chicago) at 4:25 PM and
arrived Kansas City (495 miles) at 10:10 PM. With Centerville at 326 miles,
No. 3 probably would've been there around 7:00 PM.  No. 4 left Kansas City
at 1:25 AM, arriving Rock Island at 7:35 AM.  Centerville would've been
around 4:30 AM.

Does anyone know - was there a crew change point between Rock Island and
Kansas City?

Dick Gill

David Koziol <KOZIOLDS2 at msn.com> wrote: 

Before getting in an argument on another railroads list can somebody help 
me? I can't get to my Rock Island timetables right now to check. Was 
Centerville, Iowa a scheduled stop or a flag stop for the Golden State? If 
it was a scheduled stop, what were the arrival and departure times and what 
year is this information from? Thanks
David Koziol 

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